Peregian Beach House.

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Maris
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Peregian Beach House.

Postby Maris » 23 Dec 2015, 16:23

Image
Peregian Beach House #1
Gelatin-silver photograph on Adorama VC FB photographic paper, image size 19.6cm X 24.7cm, from a 8x10 Fomapan 200 negative exposed in a Tachihara 810HD triple extension field view camera fitted with a Schneider Super Angulon 121mm f8 lens. Titled, signed, and annotated verso.

It's not often these days that one does an architecture shoot on 8x10 film. The owners of this house are very proud of it and wanted the very best rendition of it in the tradition of those architecture magazines that dazzled folks back in the 20th century. The camera was set up exactly "orthogonal", level, squared up, lens dead centre, to be technically neutral.

The next shoot will put the camera up at the ceiling with a strong "drop front" effect; all floor space , minimal roof. I hope I don't fall off the ladder I'll need to see the ground glass.

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Barry Kirsten
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Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Barry Kirsten » 24 Dec 2015, 05:57

Very nice, Maris. I'm sure the owners would be very happy with the result. Good luck up the ladder!

Mick Fagan
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Mick Fagan » 24 Dec 2015, 13:20

I like the placement of the water outlet at virtually dead centre, the movement of the outside foliage gives an indication of the exposure length.

I wonder though how much coverage you will have to allow you to drop the front down, great idea, but I wouldn't have thought there was that much coverage?

Mick.

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Maris
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Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Maris » 24 Dec 2015, 17:30

You are right, Mick. The Schneider Super Angulon 121mm f8 barely covers 8x10 so it won't support any movements let alone a lot of drop front.

If this was hard-line commercial job with tasty dollars riding on it I'd try a lot of approaches before giving up and letting some one else take it:
1. Point the camera down, pull the back up vertical, stop the lens all the way down, and hope depth of focus (not depth of field) gets me an overall sharp image
2. Try my Wollensak Velostigmat W.A. 159mm f9.5 in a off-centre board. The lens swallows the 8x10 format but has limited drop because the Tachihara doesn't have bag bellows.
3. Shoot a Nikkor-SW 65mm f4 or Schneider Super Angulon 75mm f5.6 straight on to 8x10 film and cut a 4x5 section out of the circular image on the the negative (shock, horror). Then enlarge the cropped piece like any other 4x5 neg.
4. Shoot the same 65mm and 75mm lenses on the 4x5 Toyo G monorail which does have a bag bellows.
5. If all else fails shoot the interiors with the Mamiya RB67 carrying its 37mm f4.5 Fisheye lens. Then send the negs to a colleague who can scan them and produce de-fished picture files.
Years ago I used to tell potential clients there wasn't a picture problem I couldn't solve. While this was not actually true I did get some work.

Mick Fagan
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Mick Fagan » 25 Dec 2015, 10:07

Hmm, use the Toyo 45 monorail. I wondered about that, I thought a 75mm would just get in, but I wasn’t too sure about a 65mm.

I used Toyo monorails reasonably extensively for a period in the late eighties through to the early nineties. The same base camera but in two variants, 4x5” and 8x10”. From memory the shortest lens that would comfortably fit and allow infinity focus was around 75mm to 90mm.

We had various lenses kicking around, but all of them were either Rodenstock or Schneider variants, with the one exception being a Fujinon 75 SWD which was purchased specifically for an interior shoot on colour negative stock using one of the 4x5” Toyo monorails. I didn’t use that camera and lens, but I assisted for a couple of days, meaning I set the camera up, focused, loaded and unloaded film and pretty much did everything except trip the shutter and make a final decision about exposure. It was this exposure (pardon the pun) to Fujinon that made me realise that there was life outside of the German lens manufacturing duopoly in graphic arts as well as in normal camera photography.

Back to the subject. I have a Toyo 4x5” Monorail, Toyo 45G to be precise, I also have a Fujinon 65mm f/5.6. Crucially, it is mounted on a recessed lens board, otherwise I wouldn’t have given this much thought. I pulled out the Toyo, placed the 65mm lens in place, and then closed things up. I really wasn’t too sure about whether it was going to work.

Focus at infinity was only achieved after pulling in pretty much everything, leaving about 0.5mm clearance between the front and rear standards, as can be seen in my picture numbered 003. It would seem a more deeply recessed board than what I have could be advantageous, not too sure if they are readily available though. When I focused about 1m from the camera, I had around 4mm of play, so an internal shot with focus on something reasonably close and stopping down to maximum may be more easily achieved.

Having bag bellows is very convenient, but unless you have enough clearance, life can be frustrating. I have bag bellows for my Shen Hao 4x5” folding wood camera, I have used them, but with the Fujinon 65mm mounted on a recessed board, I found I can use the standard bellows. With the 65mm on the recessed board, I have found the bellows compression to be about the same as when I have a 90mm on a flat board.

As neither lens really has much in the way of movements due to lack of coverage, I can get away with this. If I found a bag of money under a rainbow, maybe I would consider some wide angle lenses with greater coverage, but in reality I doubt I would do that, I’m very happy with what I have.

Where I used to work, we pretty much told customers we can shoot anything, or almost anything, often got us into interesting situations, but it was fun wracking one’s brains. Glad I got out of that game, although I learnt more when we had problems than when things were going smoothly.

What I do find particularly pleasing about your picture, is that what appears to be corner fall off, is neatly covered by superb placement of your camera. Whether this was by design or accident I don’t care, it looks the goods.

Mick.

Fujinon_65_on_Toyo_45GA_001.jpg
Fujinon_65_on_Toyo_45GA_002.jpg
Fujinon_65_on_Toyo_45GA_003.jpg
Fujinon_65_on_Toyo_45GA_005.jpg

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Maris
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Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Maris » 27 Dec 2015, 10:02

Thanks, Mick, for your insights and observations.

And double thanks for the last picture in your post. The Toyo lens/back standards can go either way on the rail and the bellows/back/lensboard can go either side of those standards. Instead of faffing about for an hour and trying all the combinations on a short rail your picture instantly showed the combo for an ultrawide lens. I should have remembered this after all the Toyo wrangling I've done. If I hadn't been so mean and had sprung for a Sinar System instead of a Toyo (expensive enough, already) I guess I'd have a different bunch of challenges.

The edge illumination fall-off in the Peregian Beach House photograph is seriously adjusted. The first exposure of the neg in the contact frame set the density of the edges. Then there were seven more equal time exposures through decreasing size hole cards all converging on the middle of the picture. This way I compensated for lens fall-off and the fact that the scene was brightest in the middle. In theory all the fall-off could have been smoothed out. In practice knowing when to stop is a judgement call, er, guess.

Mick Fagan
Posts: 412
Joined: 24 Sep 2015, 21:20
Location: Melbourne

Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Mick Fagan » 27 Dec 2015, 11:55

Maris, I sort of guessed that there may have been more to the evenness of the picture than at first appeared. As a long time darkroom addict, I usually know what needs edge burning and what doesn’t. Funnily enough, C41 colour prints were easier to do than panchromatic B&W prints from the same negative, they were also easier to do than prints from B&W film, all things being equal.

Colour prints of interiors were usually easiest of the lot to do, often because the different colour light sources made for an array of colour palette so demanding it was virtually impossible to neutralise. So we usually left the colour warm and didn’t worry too much about some minor blemishes here and there.

The Fuji Reala film when it came out with its fourth layer of colour, was the only non-Kodak film we were allowed to use (we were a total Kodak establishment). It was like opening Pandora’s Box, the change was profound, near neutral colour when light from daylight, Tungsten and fluorescent were all mixed. Used that film almost exclusively for myself and standardised my home colour printing with that film.

Back to the subject(s) with regard to you settling for a Toyo instead of a Sinar, I don’t think there is too much in it. In our studios (14 of them) we generally had around 16 or so photographers doing stuff from around 0800hr through to 2200hr five days a week, with special shoots on weekends. As a result we had access to a plethora of photographic equipment, including some interesting view cameras.

Using view cameras one usually had a choice between Toyo and Sinar, with Toyo the more likely option as they always seemed to be easier to use, plus we had every accessory in the book for them. Possibly the only real accessory worth mentioning that we had for the Sinar, was the TTL metering.

This was basically a Gossen meter with a long knife like blade accessory that one could insert anywhere on the inside of the ground glass to get spot on light reading, whether the bellows was minimised or extended with an extension, it gave on the money light readings. It was however problematic to use, it worked well, but it was not what I would call user friendly.

Funnily enough, almost every photographer that used it, almost always still did an E6 exposure first, then waited the 30 odd minutes for it to be processed and on the colour corrected light box before going ahead with the shoot. Sort of negated the idea of using a light meter. It did however confirm simple calculations done using a ruler to measure bellows extension. But its biggest eye opener as far as I was concerned, was light fall off using wide to very wide lenses.

As a result I picked up the fibre optic extension for my own Profisix light meter, this enabled me to take light readings directly from the ground glass. Great for studio work, but a bit of a time waster for anything else. Still, I picked it up for a song about 28 years or so ago.

Back to Toyo monorails, like most cameras they are only a tool to hold film and optics in correct alignment, but what a tool. I picked up my 45G literally as I was walking out of the Melbourne Photographic Flea Market in March this year. I was with another person there where we had a table essentially selling deceased photographic estates of a couple of friends. On my final walk out with a trolley of empty boxes, I spied the 45G, which was only three tables away which had been there all day but unnoticed by me.

I looked at it for about 15 seconds, noted the price tag, then pulled out the required notes. Total transaction from start to finish was about 2 minutes, three tops. My re-acquaintance with the Toyo monorail cameras has reinforced my memory of them as pretty much capable of doing anything pretty well. Like riding a bicycle, once learnt, never forgotten. Upon reading your possible future ways of shooting with your Toyo monorail, I pulled mine out then set it up and did some measurements, your post had piqued my curiosity. It was a great way to start December the 25th.

Another aspect, do you own a centre filter? I had used one in another life way back when and often wondered as I was burning in stuff shot using my 90mm Angulon on my Shen Hao 4x5” camera. With the purchase early this year of a Fujinon f/5.6, 65 SWD I wondered about whether or not a centre filter would help. I quickly exposed a couple of sheets using this lens then enlarged them. I reckoned that a centre filter would or could be helpful.

I also asked a couple of people I know shooting with 65mm lenses with the 4x5” format. They both reckoned there wasn’t too much of an issue, I also feel that while both of these individuals do wet printing, they also appear to have a very good scanned negative output, so I still wasn’t too sure.

As luck would have it, a Heliopan 67mm graduated centre filter turned up in Australia at the right price about 1 week from the start of a three month far western outback Qld holiday. I picked it up then raced off and exposed one sheet with the filter, and one without the filter. The results were astounding on the ground glass, let alone in the darkroom. I haven’t shot anything on my 65mm without using the centre filter since. Prints in the darkroom now are essentially straight prints with just normal dodging or burning in, as opposed to edge and corner issues with a super wide lens fall off.

Mick.

Heliopan_706751_67mm_Center_ND_3x_21722.jpg
Ground_Glass_light_reading_patent.jpg
Gossen_Profisix_accessories.jpg

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Maris
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Location: Noosa

Re: Peregian Beach House.

Postby Maris » 28 Dec 2015, 13:20

Mick, your reminiscences sure bring back memories; some amusing gaffes come to mind, here's one:
I'm off to a shoot with film, meter, tripod, flash, etc, and head out with the big cube shaped silver case labelled "Toyo Kit #3" which is supposed to have everything in it. In front of the client I assemble the gear... except the rail clamp which is missing. No audible profanities but I look a right Charlie. My (feckless, lazy ?) colleague who used the kit before me took the camera off the tripod the easy way by just undoing the rail clamp, and then quietly hung tripod plus clamp on the equipment wall!

Since I'm retired I'm not going to shoot colour so handling lens fall-off is a routine job in the black and white darkroom. But a nice, big, cheap, centre-dark filter (no such animal?) would be a pleasant luxury in the camera bag.

Once a 4x5 lens gets as short as 65mm I reckon the pictures start to look peculiar - 90% periphery with a tiny, distant looking, main subject in the middle. To counter this I try to have something nondescrip in the foreground to show there is a foreground. Then I try for items at the edges that don't look bad when laterally stretched: flower pots, abstract art, that sort of thing; no, no, people or faces.


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