Thredbo River

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Maris
Posts: 882
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 16:02
Location: Noosa

Thredbo River

Postby Maris » 22 Dec 2021, 09:29

Image
Thredbo River
Gelatin-silver photograph on Ultrafine Silver Eagle VC FB photographic paper, image size 24.6cm X 19.5cm, from a 8x10 Fomapan 100 negative exposed in a Tachihara 810HD triple extension field view camera fitted with a Wollensak Velostigmat Wide Angle Ser.III f9.5 8x10 6 1/4 inch Focus lens.

Modern wide angle lenses for the 8x10 format all seem to be huge. The Wollensak, by contrast, is a tiny uncoated 8 element design from the early 20th century that even covers 10x12 when stopped way down.

Mick Fagan
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Joined: 24 Sep 2015, 21:20
Location: Melbourne

Re: Thredbo River

Postby Mick Fagan » 24 Dec 2021, 13:59

Very nice Maris. The bleached looking fallen tree leads ones eye straight across the river to the line of light coloured Poplars, which in turn are balanced by the dark foliage of the tree on the opposing bank.

As for modern wide angle and old wide angle, one word springs to mind, colour.

I attended a talk on photographic optics during a Summer of Science Lectures many moons ago at RMIT in Melbourne. RMIT is now a University, but back then it really was the same as its name; Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology. The talk was about the advances required of optics with the introduction of colour film used in cinematic operations.

The star of the talk was the introduction of the 24mm lens for Technicolor filming. Back then they used a patented 24mm lens and split the image via a clever prism(s) arrangement with the original being two colour via a dual split, and eventually a three colour system via a triple split of the image. the separate images were all recorded to different B&W films which were then either filtered with a colour filter, or were coloured then ran back onto whichever system of the day was current via another 24mm lens variant to make one image for print film. Which was then used for projection in cinemas around the world. Very, very expensive process.

As an aside, once the 24mm patent ran out, aftermarket lens manufacturers suddenly had a plethora of 24mm lenses for 35mm film cameras for sale at somewhere around 50% of the brand name 24mm lenses that were paying royalties. Brand name manufacturers were Nikon, Canon and so on, aftermarket manufacturers were Tokina, Sigma and so on.

My recollection is somewhat hazy as it was close to 40 years ago when I attended that lecture. The basic premise about wide angle lenses really starting to up their physical size was more or less because of the introduction of colour film, which basically came after coloured B&W film, meaning lens manufacturers literally had to sharpen up their game to an order of magnitude that prior to then was not warranted.

As still photography in general followed cinematography and with the introduction of Kodachrome for stills, colour fidelity required ever more complex glass arrangement and as a result they became physically larger. That is what I understood about the chronology of lens design and how things were shaped. When photography celebrated 150 years of being, we attended the best exhibition of photography my wife and I have ever seen. This was in the Deutsches Museum in Munich, which is possibly in the top three museums in the world.

With the introduction of commercial colour photography, the camera designs changed slightly in order to be able to handle the larger optics required for colour corrected lenses. This was noticeable with the subtle change of the front standard on wooden cameras becoming slightly beefier, something which we wouldn't have noticed unless like at this exhibition it was quite clearly pointed out as a subtle yet major change in photography. We spent around 4 hours straight at that exhibition and still we glossed over it. I might add that the majority of those samples were German and French cameras.

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Maris
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Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 16:02
Location: Noosa

Re: Thredbo River

Postby Maris » 27 Dec 2021, 11:13

Thanks Mick for your kind comments on my heavily plotted Thredbo River picture. Subtlety is sometimes overrated.

Thanks too for your insights on the evolution of modern wide angles. Quite a story that explains some mysteries. Those Technicolor 24mm lenses must have had plenty of back focus to fit all the image splitter prisms behind them. Could they have been the first retrofocus designs?

Walter Glover
Posts: 1270
Joined: 31 Jul 2012, 22:31
Location: Leichhardt, NSW

Re: Thredbo River

Postby Walter Glover » 27 Dec 2021, 13:50

Sad to say Maris,

I attempted to cure some insomnia late on the night that you originally posted this and so affective was the panacea that I drifted off to sleep, fingers on the keyboard, and awoke hours later to find that my login had expired.

Given your penchant. for light weight portability your choice of the vintage Wollensak Velostigmat wide-angle comes as no surprise. Well do I recall Mr. Undy enthusing about his acquisition of a Schneider Angulon 121mm that just covered 8x10 and was tiny — he might also have had a 90mm Angulon as well.

Apart from the size and weight I can also imagine that single coated, or uncoated, glass could add to the visual statement.

In my quest for a scaled-down compact and helper-friendly kit to work with from the wheelchair I recently divested myself of a 120mm f8 Super Angulon in favour of a 120mm f5.6 Apo Symmar which will still adequately cover 4 x 5 with room for movements (and even more movement 612). I''ve shot a test roll just in my room but I'm waiting for Wednesday to mail it off to the lab. I'm quite keen to see what difference there is in image quality between the two optical designs.
Walter Glover

"We see things not as they are. We see them as we are."
Emanuel Kant

Mick Fagan
Posts: 412
Joined: 24 Sep 2015, 21:20
Location: Melbourne

Re: Thredbo River

Postby Mick Fagan » 29 Dec 2021, 19:51

Interesting choice of lens there Walter, considering your requirements, it certainly makes sense.

I don't know much about the 120mm version, I don't think I've ever seen one. I'm assuming it is running a Copal 0 shutter and 49mm filter, which if this is the case, it should be small enough not to get in the way or be too heavy and awkward.

Walter Glover
Posts: 1270
Joined: 31 Jul 2012, 22:31
Location: Leichhardt, NSW

Re: Thredbo River

Postby Walter Glover » 01 Jan 2022, 14:12

Select a prize from the top shelf Mick,

Copal 0 and. 49mm filters indeed, not to mention maximum aperture 1:5.6 which is very handy with a spot of glaucoma in the left eye. Fortuitously I have a stack of 49 mm filters and a vintage Schneider 49mm lens shade with a magnetic attachment to hold gelatin filters, It weighs just 230 g on a Technika board, so bulk and mass are sympathetic to my needs also.

The inability to have chenicals in my room means that processing will be conducted throught Australia Post at commercial labs so for convenience and cost I'll be largely. basing myself on 120 roll film in a 6x12 back and C-41 — particularly in the early stages. XP2 (of which I have some) and Ektar 100 which I like the sound of. So with 6x12 the little 120 mm Apo Symmar allows 38.41 mm of rise (18.41 mm with 4x5) which is comfortably more than the 32.21 mm of the Super Angulon 65 mm that I have. For my built environment and urban anomalies that I seek out (or that seek me out) that should all be quite sufficient.

The best 120mm lens I ever had, resolution-wise, was the Super Symmar HM that got stolen out of my. van back in 2017, but theey're now waay too expensive ($2.5 grand-ish) and at the optimal aperture of f/16 the. centre, mid-point and corner line pairs per mm findings of Kerry Thalman were 80, 80, 60 and for the Apo Symmar 76, 54, 54 whereas for a Rodenstock Grandagon (at 740 g & 82 mm ffilter) peaks at f/11 with 68,, 48 42. In short, I am hoping to. be quite pleasantly surprised. And not to forget for a moment that I've given myself one of the most challenging, interesting and unexpected briefs I've ever had to plan through.
Walter Glover

"We see things not as they are. We see them as we are."
Emanuel Kant

Walter Glover
Posts: 1270
Joined: 31 Jul 2012, 22:31
Location: Leichhardt, NSW

Re: Thredbo River

Postby Walter Glover » 01 Jan 2022, 14:14

Sorry Maris,

I didn't mean to digress from your nice photo of the Thredbo River.
Walter Glover

"We see things not as they are. We see them as we are."
Emanuel Kant


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